Beyond Scared Straight is child abuse
/ 73 posts
22 May 20 12:47 pm
The programme which claims to rehabilitate kids.

Where they send troubled kids to jail to 'teach them a lession'. I allready became suspicious when I saw some of the tactics they used in that programme



And than theres this

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article226325665.html

I get it that these are troubled kids, but troubled kids oftentimes have emotional scars from either being abused, in the past or troubles at school etc.

Why traumatize them even more and especially for entertainment purposes?
/ 211 posts
22 May 20 11:32 pm *
Shit kids need to be ironed out, simple.
/ 73 posts
23 May 20 1:11 pm
Misanthropic_Nature wrote:
Shit kids need to be ironed out, simple.



Even if that implies that it has no effect? And they might turn out even worse?
/ 211 posts
23 May 20 2:47 pm
Norwegian wrote:
Misanthropic_Nature wrote:
Shit kids need to be ironed out, simple.



Even if that implies that it has no effect? And they might turn out even worse?

Speak to people in a way they understand, violent people respond to violence not by coddling them, you have to show them the severity of their actions.
/ 22 posts
24 May 20 11:32 am
I don't personally like these shows, I think in their minds they're likely excited to get onto tv and become famous for some dumb remark like the "catch me outside" girl from Dr. Phil.

Unfortunately though, these kids do need some tough love and to be shown where their life choices are taking them. If you look at the little boy that was crying in the video that hit his mother, notice how he kept looking to see if the camera was on him, something children do when they have a temper tantrum to see if you're giving them attention whether it's good or bad they will take any attention they can get. Sadly for some of these kids bad attention is all they know and where they find comfort. I wish this show would highlight parenting as well, there is obviously a deeper reason that little boy deemed it fit to hit his mother. Therapy would likely improve his behavior but again, these kids are too far gone to cooperate with any authority as shown in the first young man who simply would not do what he was told and mouthing off. Things are obviously deeper than what can be shown in a 20-45 minute program.

The point is though that these people have made their choices they chose to break laws and they are there for a reason. Whether they regret it or not, there is consequence for every action. As for it being abuse, yes I do agree that they are rough on the children considering they are not yet felons. However, I agree with above, they need to be shown the severity of their actions. The choices they are making are going to send them to that facility or one like it and they need it drilled into their brains what will happen to them if they end up there because their parents saying "You're going to end up in jail" is very obviously not working. I do agree with the program, I do not agree with showcasing it on television and I believe it should be regulated.

The article is saying how they're too rough on the children, making an overweight kid run until he urinated on himself... that's the point. To break their mentality of "I'm big and tough and if I end up in jail I'll be fine" to "I've been a disrespectful little shit and will do better from now on". What do you think happens in boot camp or military training? Very similar in some training cases, breaking you down and building you back up again.
In all honesty, they do actually want to see the child succeed, I do remember at the end of these episodes (Or maybe it was another program similar, I don't watch tv often) the officers will have a heart to heart with the children to try to understand and help the child themself to understand why they've been acting the way they have.

I know I'm writing a book here, my apologies. To quote the article:

“Once they leave here, they pretty much have a reset button,” Underwood said. “…They know what it’s like and they don’t want to come here.”
One 15-year-old in the January session said he was “going down the wrong path” by lying, stealing and being disrespectful to his parents. On the first day of the program, he said, he wanted to leave. But by the second day, he realized his parents “sent me here for a reason.”
The teen said when he returned home, he was going to apologize to his parents. “I will try my best to change,” he told a Herald reporter.
/ 244 posts
24 May 20 7:50 pm
GUYS! People are like strings on a guitar; if you tune them too tight they snap, if you don't tune them enough they are slack and won't sound right. We need discipline but the problem is discipline has become an ugly word. BUT when you think about it even the roller derby skaters have discipline, if they didn't they wouldn't be able to play properly. That's the problem, trying to decide the limit between abuse and discipline, also everyone's different which makes it even more difficult.
/ 73 posts
24 May 20 8:28 pm
Do your research, people. And you will see that theres no amount of evidence which suggests that breaking kids is actually a good.

Yes, everyone makes choices... that is not a good argument for child abuse. Its not even remotely valid at that.

The point if there are better options than breaking a child in order to make them behave, you should do it.

We know the effects of child abuse in 2020. We know that it can affect people long into adulthood.

So, why do you still believe in it, when in essense it actually has a good potential of depriving children their childhood?

I trust the experts way more than I do the police officers, given that they are qualified to know.

So the kids are behaving badly? Mostly, theres a reason for that. Maybe because they allready have issues in the first place?
/ 73 posts
24 May 20 8:31 pm
Misanthropic_Nature wrote:
Norwegian wrote:
Misanthropic_Nature wrote:
Shit kids need to be ironed out, simple.



Even if that implies that it has no effect? And they might turn out even worse?

Speak to people in a way they understand, violent people respond to violence not by coddling them, you have to show them the severity of their actions.



Except its well known that children emulate their surroundings. Showing people severety of their actions is not the same as physically and emotionally abusing them.
/ 73 posts
24 May 20 8:39 pm
OccasionalDemons wrote:
I don't personally like these shows, I think in their minds they're likely excited to get onto tv and become famous for some dumb remark like the "catch me outside" girl from Dr. Phil.

Unfortunately though, these kids do need some tough love and to be shown where their life choices are taking them. If you look at the little boy that was crying in the video that hit his mother, notice how he kept looking to see if the camera was on him, something children do when they have a temper tantrum to see if you're giving them attention whether it's good or bad they will take any attention they can get. Sadly for some of these kids bad attention is all they know and where they find comfort. I wish this show would highlight parenting as well, there is obviously a deeper reason that little boy deemed it fit to hit his mother. Therapy would likely improve his behavior but again, these kids are too far gone to cooperate with any authority as shown in the first young man who simply would not do what he was told and mouthing off. Things are obviously deeper than what can be shown in a 20-45 minute program.

The point is though that these people have made their choices they chose to break laws and they are there for a reason. Whether they regret it or not, there is consequence for every action. As for it being abuse, yes I do agree that they are rough on the children considering they are not yet felons. However, I agree with above, they need to be shown the severity of their actions. The choices they are making are going to send them to that facility or one like it and they need it drilled into their brains what will happen to them if they end up there because their parents saying "You're going to end up in jail" is very obviously not working. I do agree with the program, I do not agree with showcasing it on television and I believe it should be regulated.

The article is saying how they're too rough on the children, making an overweight kid run until he urinated on himself... that's the point. To break their mentality of "I'm big and tough and if I end up in jail I'll be fine" to "I've been a disrespectful little shit and will do better from now on". What do you think happens in boot camp or military training? Very similar in some training cases, breaking you down and building you back up again.
In all honesty, they do actually want to see the child succeed, I do remember at the end of these episodes (Or maybe it was another program similar, I don't watch tv often) the officers will have a heart to heart with the children to try to understand and help the child themself to understand why they've been acting the way they have.

I know I'm writing a book here, my apologies. To quote the article:

“Once they leave here, they pretty much have a reset button,” Underwood said. “…They know what it’s like and they don’t want to come here.”
One 15-year-old in the January session said he was “going down the wrong path” by lying, stealing and being disrespectful to his parents. On the first day of the program, he said, he wanted to leave. But by the second day, he realized his parents “sent me here for a reason.”
The teen said when he returned home, he was going to apologize to his parents. “I will try my best to change,” he told a Herald reporter.






Societys norms isnt always the right way. If you know that there are better options than to resort to abusing a child, do it. We should nurture and protect children. Not abuse them or traumatize them. Every child deserves to have a childhood without abuse
/ 73 posts
24 May 20 9:18 pm
ausersite wrote:
The truth is, the American jail system has to be reformed, if fear is not be there. Even Peter Steele went to Rikers island for thirty days. Not a nice place.

He was lucky that nothing happened to him, even an eccentric look couldn't really save him in a place like that.



Hitchens made an excellent point here:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2005/09/hitchens200509.

Basically: Are there people that needs to be locked up for the rest of their lives? Yes.

But Im convinced that rehabiliation is just as important to get people back on track.

But now, to send children to a place like this. Threatning to beat them up, etc. Thats abuse, no matter how people slice it and dice it.

Kids that are agressive and angry arent necessarily like that for fun, but because they are hurting. Many of them, in fact, turned out more angry and agressive after this.

And, like you said, the US justice system isnt that great by a long shot.

The countries that are rewarded as having the best systems are the northern countries.

I just dont understand how breaking kids is a good idea, when there are other ways to help them turn their life around. To me, thats like beating an aggressive animal into submission and the animal will only obey out of fear and not out of will
/ 244 posts
25 May 20 8:09 pm
The first ten years of your life determines how you view people and the world as an adult. I know this from experience but it's also something Frued and Jung discovered and Jessuits were aware of it. But yeah....like I said, people are like strings on a guitar. It's difficult to find that right kind of 'tuning' when disciplining a person. When I was a kid all I needed as a glaring look and harsh words to be 'scared straight.'
/ 73 posts
04 Jun 20 3:12 pm
Karl wrote:
The first ten years of your life determines how you view people and the world as an adult. I know this from experience but it's also something Frued and Jung discovered and Jessuits were aware of it. But yeah....like I said, people are like strings on a guitar. It's difficult to find that right kind of 'tuning' when disciplining a person. When I was a kid all I needed as a glaring look and harsh words to be 'scared straight.'



Same. I do, however, think that if it does more harm than good, it shouldnt be used.

And this turned out to be the case with several studies they did of the programme.
/ 210 posts
15 Jun 20 10:35 pm
So I bust out laughing at child abuse? My favorite episode is the kid who talks about how "tough" he is, and ends up combing a man's chest hair 😅
/ 73 posts
14 Aug 20 10:01 pm
AVintagePaperDoll wrote:
So I bust out laughing at child abuse? My favorite episode is the kid who talks about how "tough" he is, and ends up combing a man's chest hair 😅



So you believe the show rather than the actual facts represented in this case?

Its obvious. Threaten a child with violence, that IS mental and emotional abuse. Having children run to they break up, that IS mental and emotional abuse. But, yeah, I assume the number of Kids that exited the show more fucked up and ten times more hardneded criminals worked like a charm. Instead of rehabilitating them to become better citizens.

Mental and emotional abuse, isnt that funny 😛👎
/ 73 posts
14 Aug 20 10:16 pm
The point is children emulate what they see.

I happy that throughout the world we have moved into a process of gradually making child abuse illegal. The more research we have the more we understand the effects.

The effects of trauma can be very severe and have very deep impact. Especially from an early age when we develop mentally and emotionally.

Would you take the risk of causing trauma to another human being if there are better options? https://medium.com/hope-and-strength/why-the-beyond-scared-straight-program-does-not-work-7d0bb8e220fa

How do we know they dont lash out because they have been bullied or experienced other problems that makes them express themselves in other ways? How do we know there isnt a root cause to this type of behaviour?
/ 244 posts
17 Aug 20 6:27 am
Kids I went to school with had no discipline, the school had no discipline. I know it's an ugly word but the end result is callous, sociopathic bordering on pyschopathic children. I had a horrible time with it, High School especially was a living hell. What I'm trying to say is though discipline is an ugly word children seriously need it today. But there's a fine line between discipline and child abuse.
/ 73 posts
17 Aug 20 9:57 am
Karl wrote:
Kids I went to school with had no discipline, the school had no discipline. I know it's an ugly word but the end result is callous, sociopathic bordering on pyschopathic children. I had a horrible time with it, High School especially was a living hell. What I'm trying to say is though discipline is an ugly word children seriously need it today. But there's a fine line between discipline and child abuse.



Exactly my point, also. Absense of abuse doesnt mean lack of discipline.
At the same time I get the, impression that some Kids are acting out because they are hurting and that it might be a way to say 'Im hurting on the inside'
I was horrified by much of the content in that programme.

Dicipline, be able to listen and so on. I think that theres a combination.
/ 73 posts
17 Aug 20 10:03 am
Karl wrote:
Kids I went to school with had no discipline, the school had no discipline. I know it's an ugly word but the end result is callous, sociopathic bordering on pyschopathic children. I had a horrible time with it, High School especially was a living hell. What I'm trying to say is though discipline is an ugly word children seriously need it today. But there's a fine line between discipline and child abuse.



Im sorry you had to endure bullying, though.
/ 244 posts
17 Aug 20 7:45 pm
Yeah, the problem is when you deal with it for so long it affects you as an adult. Right up until my mid twenties I would go out in public feeling inferior to everyone else, walk with my head low and i anyone called out to me I wouldn't respond because it was normally slander. The point I'm trying to make is we need to bring back discipline but have to overcome it as a 'dirty word' hand draw lines between discipline and child abuse.
/ 73 posts
18 Aug 20 8:50 pm
Karl wrote:
Yeah, the problem is when you deal with it for so long it affects you as an adult. Right up until my mid twenties I would go out in public feeling inferior to everyone else, walk with my head low and i anyone called out to me I wouldn't respond because it was normally slander. The point I'm trying to make is we need to bring back discipline but have to overcome it as a 'dirty word' hand draw lines between discipline and child abuse.



I used to feel the same way you did. I think that teaching Kids good values are important. And also get to why they bully. When parents mock and ridicule their own Kids, argue in front of their Kids, talk bad about other people or about other groups in front of their Kids. I think that indirectly might affect how children behave. A good strategy for prevention is probably to focus on what kind of environment they grow up in and effective strategies for prevention